Coaching and Creative Freedom with Australian Artist & Creative Coach Ros Gervay

Daring Creatively: Unfiltered is an Australian art podcast where Sydney-based contemporary artist Korynn Morrison picks up the phone, drops a surprise topic into the conversation, and hits record.

In this episode Korynn calls Sydney-based contemporary artist, business coach for creatives, and host of the Paint Rest Repeat podcast, Ros Gervay. Ros has supported thousands of artists through her coaching, membership and online communities, helping them build more sustainable and fulfilling creative businesses. The surprise topic: what sitting with other artists has revealed about your own creative blocks.

This one felt personal. Because when you spend your days helping other artists move through their blocks, it raises a very honest question — what are you still not doing for yourself?

In this unfiltered conversation two artists and coaches talk about the difference between holding space for a client's journey and reflecting on your own, why Ros deliberately keeps her coaching practice and her art practice separate, creative freedom and joy as the only real definition of success, why having multiple income streams means her art is never under financial pressure, going through a little art funk herself and what she is doing with that, the importance of self trust over following someone else's system, and why there is no one right way to build a creative life.

If you love art podcasts, conversations about the creative process, or you are an artist trying to figure out how to balance making work with building a sustainable creative business, this one is for you.

New episodes drop whenever the call happens.

Ros Gervay Relevant Links:

Ros Gervay on Instagram HERE

Check Out Her Website HERE

Paint Rest Repeat Podcast HERE

Join My Inner Circle: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/mailing-list

Visit My Website: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/

Find me on Instagram HERE

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

My guest today is my incredibly talented friend Roz Gervay. She's a Sydney-based contemporary artist, business coach for creatives, founder of Permission to Paint, and the host of the Paint Rest Repeat podcast. Roz's very own practice centers around vibrant, semi-abstract floral paintings, inspired by the unassuming beauty of nature. But alongside her studio practice, Roz has supported thousands of artists through her coaching, membership, podcasts, and online communities, helping emerging and growing artists build more sustainable and fulfilling creative businesses, whilst creating spaces where artists feel less alone and more able to move through the blocks that hold them back. She's also the person who had me on her podcast recently for a conversation. And that conversation got so real I had to share it on my own feed too. But today, the tables are turned. And the surprise topic I gave her was what sitting with other artists has revealed about your own creative blocks. So, grab yourself a copper. This is a juicy one. Lots of notes to take in this one. Let's type in. No plan, no prep, no agenda. Just two creatives having a chat. I'm Karin Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life. My guests are artists at every stage of the journey. And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear. So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us. This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered. Let's go. How are you? I'm so good. Oh my god. I have to be laughing here. I'm I'm literally uh this is so morbid, right? I've just rushed back um from a solicitor's office because I was literally organizing my will. So that's okay, that's ostensible. I know, but like my parents there were like signing all these documents. I'm like, talk about like life admin, right? So I got back to the studio and I'm like, oh well shit, I gotta ground myself now, all this talk of death, like far out.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Quite a good sort of vibe though, right? Like it's all about making the most of your time here and all that jazz.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah, and that's a hundred percent in. It's just more about like getting your shit together. Like it just makes you really aware of, oh my gosh, hang on. There are actually some really serious things I've got to think about right now. Um don't worry. Don't worry, I'm not dying or anything. Good news. Anyway, how's your day? Are you on a creative day or a coaching day?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Oh, I am on a mad week, is what I am. I actually don't know how I'm gonna survive. I've been cancelling a few bits and pieces because I have overcommitted this week. Um, yes, no, it's just a chaos week this week.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

That's that's how I would describe it. It's good that you're giving yourself permission to actually cancel some things because I mean, like, I'm I'm the same at times. I like I'm a bit of a yes person for the most part. And then I get halfway through my week and I'm like, oh wow, this this um fuel tank of mine is um is really getting low. I don't know if I can commit to one more thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So I guess I think it's just that, yeah, it's just it doesn't have to be hard. Life doesn't have to be hard. So let's, you know, make some decisions at a scope that's gonna help me survive the week. That's my theory anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah, 100%. How um how do you actually? I'm curious to know how you actually divide up your time. Like, do you keep a pretty rigid structure for your creative time, or is it more of a thing that the coaching client side of things kind of you that takes priority and then you fit your art in around that? Like, how do you structure it for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

It's so funny you asked because I was asked that earlier this week as well. So it's a theme, it's in the air. Um, I do have a structure for my week. So I have basically like a high-level dream week scenario and I chuck it in my Google Calendar and it sits on top of everything. So if anyone wants to know the tech, it's not marked as busy, it's marked as free, um, but it sits over the top. So it gives me almost like a mud map for how I want to spend my week. Uh it doesn't always happen. Um, flexibility suits me because it just, you know, it just works for me. Um, but yeah, so it is, I do, I do mainly coach, I would say, and art comes second, and that is for a specific reason. Happy to dive into that. But yeah, but there is time definitely put in there every week for my art.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

I've been chewing on so many different topics that I could have surprised you with. And I just thought, do you know what? The last time we caught up in the studio, we were talking about how important, you know, authenticity is. And what we essentially do as coaches is we give permission for artists to be themselves. And so I'm curious to know, this is your surprise topic. So go for it. What is sitting with other artists? Hang on, wait, I have written that all wrong. What sitting with other artists has revealed about your own creative blocks? Now, the reason I have um prompted this particular topic is because I think inevitably when we are sitting down with other artists, like what I was saying, we're essentially giving other artists permission to be authentic. And so I find it really interesting to sit with this idea in this balancing act that we are constantly negotiating between listening and observing what other artists are doing and us trying to like help them refine that. And then stepping back into our own internal world and our own art career and going, okay, how is this mirroring back to me what I need to focus on?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah, I think that's quite an interesting perspective because I do treat them separately in the ways. That's a great question. I like that one. So you know so as a as a coach, I don't know if you've heard of this model, but um well, as a coach, right? You sit on top of a you sit on a different mountain. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

So you Oh, hang on. You're can I just pause you there? Yeah. I think you're you're cutting in and out a little bit. Uh good connection here. Okay. Try again. My reception's all right. Actually, I'll tell you what I might do. Let me just flick this Wi-Fi off just in case it is me. Okay. Try now.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Okay, yeah. So as a coach, you're sitting on one mountain and your client is sitting on a different mountain. Yeah. And the whole benefit of having a coach is that they are seeing your journey from afar, and they can see what's ahead for you, and they can give you some pointers to help you to navigate that path. So I I see my role in that sort of a sense. So I don't I don't actually draw that many connections between my clients' journeys and my own journey. I just see them as separate.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Oh, that's really interesting. Um because, like, look, I I understand that perspective as well. And yes, for the most part, I agree with all of that. Where it differs for me is because when I work with clients, I tend to work on the energetic level first. So it really comes down to like the I work on the the you part of things, so their internal world, their mindset, and all of that. And so I think when I'm tapping into the energetics of how they're operating as a person in the world first, then connecting their art in with it. The reason I say I see a mirroring effect is because inevitably there are certain things that come out of my mouth that I'm like, ooh, when was the last time I did that for myself?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah, I see, I see what you're saying. And I think that's fantastic. I mean, it's really good to reflect on that and see how that refers to your own way of operating and being as an artist. I think for me, you know, I I I do separate them quite a bit. I think that is true. I've been sitting here listening going, is that true? Did I just say the truth? Yeah, I definitely do separate them. And I think that's because I don't believe there is any one right way. No, correct. Doing something. And so when I'm talking to my clients about, you know, what might work for them next, for example, it's it's separate to me. It obviously will take little bits from what I've learned in my journey, but it's not about doing it my way 100%. Like, no, not at all. It's about finding what works for them because everyone's, you know, scenario and values and art and you know, all of that. It's it's all so different for in every one person.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, it is so different, isn't it? And I think that that's what I think that that's what excites me so much about coaching as well, is that people, you can't just place them in this perfectly identifiable box, and particularly with with art, because we are all so individual. And like I said at the start, you know, our role is to teach people how to get to know themselves more and more and more, so that their art can be more and more and more like them. And this is where I think you might want to speak to, you know, your approach to coaching or just riff off whatever you feel necessary. But I think that it's really important what you said about not pigeonholing everyone into one way of doing things. And, you know, I know for me when I'm sitting down with people, that's exactly how I think of things as well. I think about how not only everyone's art is different, but how everyone's way of thinking about their art in their life and where it fits in and what their priorities are and how much time they want it to take up. Yeah, completely.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

I think, yeah, it's that, it's that piece. And also um, also the self, you know, self-trust, trying to help them through your coaching sessions to trust themselves to know, know what's right. I think that's another big piece of the puzzle there as well. You know, like rather than co like telling people this is this and that that is that and your next step is this. It's like, what how do you feel this option might work? Or what is your heart sort of pulling you towards and why is that and what would that look like? You know, it's those open, open sorts of questions that really help, I think.

unknown 12:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And I think in particular, especially um in this day and age, like one of the main things we're constantly navigating is this comparison trap. You know, people looking over their shoulder constantly, looking at what other artists are doing, seeing some artists get representation, and then perhaps they're then identifying with that as their version of success. But when you really get down to the crux of it, you're really asking them, well, you know, that might be that person's version of success. How do you define success? Like I'm curious, how do you define your success as an artist? Because you're wearing both hats. I'm I'm curious as to how you navigate that. Because for me, my coaching side of things is not the priority of my business. So I am first and foremost full-time in the studio. And then when I have breathing space around exhibitions, I will take on another client when I can. So this is where we're and your business structure, the way that you structure things is like you've been doing this a long, long time, and you've obviously got all the systems in place and all of that. So I am curious to hear how you how you navigate that.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Um I think true success for me is is maybe is quite simple. Um, and it is creative freedom. I would say is that is success for me and maintaining joy in my own art practice.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

And that is it. That's so perfect. And it gives, I think that um, you know what? Sometimes I need that reminder for myself as well. Like I think um I think inevitably you get to a point where you begin to take things like too seriously, or you just have a lot of deadlines, or you have things coming up and you get stuck in your little creative vortex, and then you've got to always remind yourself, I remember why you're doing this. This is fun. And stop like this is the thing is that we've got to be so careful that when we're arriving to our work where we're actually really present with it. The goal is not to just get through the next painting and finish it, but be present with the work and what it's teaching us and how it's evolving us. And I think that is such a simple way that you've just stated of keeping yourself really grounded in what's important.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

And and I'm lucky, I don't actually, that's probably not the right word. I was gonna say, I'm lucky that I have um the ability to put my art in that space. I think luck's not the right word. Um, the reason I can do that is because I have multiple income streams in my art business. And I've set it up that way on purpose so that my art is not under pressure. And that allows me to be present and it allows me when like I've I'm coming through actually a little period of like a little bit of an art funk myself. And that the way I've set up my business has allowed me to give my art a bit of room to evolve because that's what it needs me, needs to do right now. And so, you know, I'm gonna I've I've set it up in a way that works for me. And again, you know, may or may not work for other people. Just you know, pull pull what you like, you know, from other people's systems, really, and ways of being.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Yeah, no, but that's um that's really good to hear that. And I think um I think as well when it comes down to it, it's so important to actually have the conversations about this and just you know we often look over social media and all of that, and everything looks really nice and shiny from the outside, but in the reality of the situation, it's like really sometimes it ain't all that shiny underneath, and I think that's this is one of the reasons why you know I've structured the podcast in this way to have real talk because it's actually okay to not be constantly productive, it's okay to take time out, and I mean, like I just got back from the corridor project residency, and I need to hear about that by the way. It was absolutely phenomenal. I'm gonna do, I'll definitely do an episode on it. And um, you know, stepping away and having time away from the regular way of doing things. But what ended up happening from that whole residency was I ended up working on these very small, very immediate thumbnail sketches. And then we had this amazing crit session with Lucy Stranger. Um, and it was so good to hear from that external perspective. Um, and she looked at the thumbnail sketches and my walking drawings that I was doing, and she was really excited by them. And in my head, I was like, oh, these aren't like I haven't worked hard enough for these. Like these were just a bit of fun.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

And then I'm like, oh, okay, there's the pattern, there's that internal work.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

It's that hard work, which is, I think as Australians, we've had it drilled into us, um, it's that hard work thing. And that nothing's it's not valuable unless it was bloody hard work. And I know you mentioned that in your episode, and I do hear that actually time and time again. Um, and that's why I often will drop in a line, like, you know, let it be easy. It's okay. And I mean, I mentioned that before, even in um in a different, I don't know, what were we talking about early in the episode, but letting it be easy. It's okay for something to be easy. You have permission to have a good time and just yeah, for things to be purely joyous and chill and calm. You don't have to be always operating on some, like, you know, what am I trying to say? Super fast speed, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Yeah, that's exactly right. And I just think like, how simple is that? Like, really, that's such a simple thing to think about. And yet we get swept up in our own um internal programming. And yeah, it just takes a couple of external people that don't really know you from a bar of soap to just pull out what is right underneath the surface.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

And I just challenge next, I'm interrupting you, but your challenge is not to forget it. So write it down somewhere and then actually do a little bit of self-work on it. Because I, you know, I notice all these sorts of things as well in myself over time, and uh I don't necessarily find the time to actually work on that thing. So that's your next challenge, Corinne.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Okay, so what what what's what's a pattern that you're working on then?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

What's your pattern at the moment in terms of a mindset? Oh gosh, I don't know if I have a big focus at the moment. I know I'm coming through a bit of a I I don't like calling it creative block because I don't think it was, you know, so creative block, right? I just have a lot of, I don't know, I don't want to use that word lightly because creative block to me is like when you are properly like you can't paint, like you just can't, you can't show up. So that was not me. So I don't want to be disrespectful to you know people who really are going through that challenge. But just not feeling in love with my own art was that's what I'm coming out of now. Um and yeah, just I'm really loving the new vibe for me. I haven't shared much online actually yet because it's still um still happening. Um but yeah, that was definitely my latest challenge in terms of my art practice around yeah, that loving my own art, um, the process and also the outcome.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's inevitable as as well that when we um I I think we all go through it for sure. Like I I tend to feel that when I'm a little bit burnt out, which every year I say I'm not gonna burn out this year. I'm gonna be a little bit more strategic with my time. And every year I have gotten a bit better um with the creative boundaries. So I will say that actually. I have implemented like things over the last few years in particular that have protected a lot of my energy. And um yeah, I've allowed it to be that when I say no, like I will only say no if it's really going to empower me. Like if I know that it really is what is like, for example, like my my poor husband downstairs that has been struggling trying to do all of his installs on his own. I had to say no to him because I've been so busy in the studio and I have just not had the capacity to put anything else on my plate. And then all of these works are finally at this sanding stage. And I've already said to him, like, I'm so sorry I haven't been able to help you. By the end of this month, I will be able to, you know, take my art hat off, so to speak, and help you a couple of days a week with whatever you need me to do. But I had to be okay with saying no for a period of time, you know? Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

And that and that is really hard. I think you know, again, we're we're all raised to be people pleasers, females in particular, which is a really, really But yes, that it's really hard to say no to other people, to let them down as well. So I think that's where you've got to stop at the point of being asked the question, you know, whether you say yes or no. You need to pause at that point and then give them a clear answer at that point because that's going to manage their expectations, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

So I'm curious to know, like in way of like this, we won't use the term creative block. Do you can just say it's the it's the seed planting season. That's what it is. Because you go through a phase of output and then you have to plant seeds again. And it's not about being productive, it's just filling the well and planting some seeds. And I think one thing that you said before I forget to mention is you said, I haven't shared anything yet. And I think that that's actually a really important point to go back to. And it is one thing that I am constantly saying to people is that you don't have to, you know, you don't have to constantly show every single thing that you're doing. Like, don't allow that to be a reason to finish an artwork because some of the stories, like some of the feedback that I get told is, you know, artists are in the middle of this really beautiful body of work, right? It's all ticking along. They haven't yet shared anything. And then the moment that they put something out there, they'll get people commenting on it or people that direct their attention to one particular work. And then inevitably they then start thinking, oh, well, is that the really good piece in the collection? Why is no one liking these ones? And I think you can you can get really stuck on that. So I'm a big almost derail you actually.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

100%. But for for a lot of creators, for me personally, I think I'm past it's really, I don't know if it's why, but I am past caring what people think of my art. I make the art that I want to make. And if you like it, right. It's available to purchase, sort of thing. Like I just have a very different sort of uh approach to that, but I know that it can definitely you you've got to understand why you're posting it. You've got to understand why you're sharing. And if it is for validation, just be a little bit aware. Let's just be a little bit aware about that because it can, yeah, it can be a little bit of a problem. The only reason I haven't shared is I haven't it, I guess I was gonna say I haven't had time to, which is true, but that also just means it hasn't been my priority. I've been busy doing other things that I've deemed to be more important than posting my art. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, and I think that all of that is valuable. And I think you even saying that is actually giving a lot of artists permission to do the same thing because I think um, you know, you grow that wisdom and that self-assurance and that knowing that you don't really give a shit about other people's opinions. That doesn't happen instantaneously. That happens over a great deal of time in developing your creative voice and finding what makes you tick.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

And it's it's also just desensitization. So sometimes it's just you've just got to do the thing a number of times and then you're like, oh, okay, it's not I'm good with this. Like I I can I can endure this basically.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Because you were getting some um, you were getting some mentoring. Didn't you were you talking with Maddie Young? Yeah, yeah. At some stage, she's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Yeah, she's incredible. Yeah, she's amazing. She's a beautiful human and gorgeous art, everyone. Go and check her out. Um she I just had one session with her and I won't hesitate to book again with her, but just you know, I've had the one so far. And she's just yeah, just amazing. I think, you know, like we talked about the the coaching of our clients, you know, when when your coaching clients, I because I do put them in my their own lane. Yeah, I still need a coach myself, you know. Yeah, for sure. Because I can't see my own things all that clearly because I'm too close to it. Um hundred percent. Yeah. So she did help to sort of um un unlock my little pickle at that time.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, and I think um I think that that is the common theme that especially after being on the residency, it's the one thing that we all said how good it was to get external people to look with a fresh set of eyes. And sure, it's not that you take on every single piece of feedback, but you know, being in the studio, it's it's such a lonely pursuit at times, unless you're really intentional about, you know, tapping back into people and asking people's opinion. I was talking to Talia Brookman the other day, and I was just saying, like, it's always the same point that I get to with my work where I feel like I start, it's like the midway sand point where there is this potential that I could sand too far, like because my curiosity in me just wants to keep digging at the work and see what else is under there. And so every now and then I just wrapping a present. It is like unwrapping a present, 100%. And every single painting I get to the same phase, and I'm like, will I, won't I? Will I won't I? Will I, won't I? Um, and do you know what? The hardest thing is stepping away from it and leaving it alone and just letting it live for a little bit. And so I was saying to Talia, I need, I need someone that's like gonna stand right behind me and just go, stop, stop, don't touch it.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Like, and this is that whole piece of you know being being, as you mentioned before, like being in community with other artists and having other artists and creatives around you because we need each other. And I yeah, I just passionately believe that we need other artists in our world to help us eat eat like collectively, whatever you know what I mean. Yeah, two-way to help each other in the journey, you know. I just think that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah, for sure. Because you were up in um, was it Brisbane? You did an artist meeting. What what what did you do? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Oh, yeah. Oh, it's my side little project. And it's it's so far it's been really good. Um so I it's I've called it Gather. Um, and it's basically like a in-person artist community, currently Australia only, um, just for artists to meet in person and to chat art and chat business and chat, whatever they want to chat about, because I think we are so often in isolation and it's number one, lonely. We're caught with our you know, stuck with our own thoughts. Um, but also we start to you know go into these little difficult patches and we can't find our way out because we have no one to share it with, you know, if you're in community and you can say, Oh my gosh, I haven't posted anything because I don't know, I'm just having trouble with whatever. Inevitably, someone else is going to, you know, pipe up and say, Oh my gosh, I'm going through that as well. And the the release, like the the lowering of the shame around that all of a sudden just just occurs because you've been vulnerable. Someone else has come back to you with their vulnerability as well. And you've both gone, ah, you know, like there's just so much value to it. So yeah, um, yeah, it's been really nice bringing artists together.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think sometimes when you're around other creatives in that, in that manner, like I keep coming back to the residency only because I've only just left. And so I'm thinking about the community aspect of being there with that group of artists. And yeah, the one thing that I said right at the end was I feel like 10 tons of weight has been lifted off my shoulders, but I didn't know I was carrying it. I didn't even realize that I was feeling so weighted down by all of these um these things I've been chewing on inside my own head. And just having the ability to um just to speak them and let the words fall out of your mouth and just observe how other people are navigating the similar things. I agree it is so beneficial, so beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I think that's something, you know, that you and I both have in common is this, um, and maybe it's come with doing this for a while, I'm not sure, but this ability to be vulnerable and to trust that that's just gonna land with others, however, it's gonna land with others, you know, and I think the more artists who can be like that um will be a lot better for the artist community. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, well, it just comes down, I think, to like this comes back to to values, right? And I mean like that number one value, like the backbone to my entire life, to the way I operate business, to the way I coach clients, that first pillar is authenticity. And I just think that if you can show up in the world and put your masks aside, put society's little labels aside, put the put the um I think society imparts all of these labels on us, right? So the Corinne, the art, like even the Ros Gervais, the artist coach. It's like I often pull myself back and I just think to myself, okay, if we had to put labels aside, if I wasn't Corinne an artist, if I wasn't Corinne a coach, if I wasn't Corinne a mother, if I wasn't Corinne, like if you shed all of that, you still come back to this whole concept of I am. And this is how I try and encourage people to show up in the world. And I think that in your head, you can you can think about that and you can go, yeah, I'm showing up authentically. I can, I can, you know, I think you can surface level get your way through that. But really, when you get down to the real bones of it and you dissect every single part of your life and you actually sit and ask yourself, am I showing up that way in every aspect of my life? This is where when we sit down with artists and we talk about what values are driving them, this is this is where that is so important. Because if you are driving your entire life, not just your creative aspect, but the way that you show up in your in the world by solid values, then you know when to say yes or no. Then it's really easy to identify if something is the correct decision for you. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, I think that that really works. I think um, yeah, it's it does come down to those values, but actually investigating those truly. Because I think, you know, when you get asked that question, like what are your top five values? People initially will just list the things they think they should have. It's not their fault, it's not their fault. Sorry, don't don't get me wrong. It's not their fault. That's just been drilled into us over the years. So we'll say the things that they we think we should have as our top values, but you've really got to look into those. I I know two good ways of doing that if I if my brain can stay focused. One is one is to ask yourself um what values, what values do you want to have? Like what values do you wish you had? And what values do you want to have? So that's the same sort of thing. That's a really interesting question. Um, and the second one is to look at what you actively prioritize through your actions day to day.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

So if you actually go out, for example, for a walk every day, then exercise and health or whatever is obviously it is actually a proven number one value for you, you know, or top value for you. So yeah, two two avenues that really work. Um yeah, just to undercover your true, your real values and your values can change. They probably won't shift all that much over the years, but they can change a little bit as you go.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah. I think so. And I think that that's just purely out of wisdom and knowing what is a complete no for you. Like, I think that you have to inevitably have some, have a bit of a shake up every now and then to know what is not serving you anymore and what is actually an important value. And um, this is where I think coaching is such an important thing for people. It is like, look, one of the things that I was reflecting on what we were going to talk about today, and I was thinking about this whole concept of coaching and where I actually found the importance of it for myself. And my my first business coach was when I was 18 years old. And um, she she is still one of my best friends and one of the women in my life I would go and confide in anything. And she literally watched me go through so many iterations of myself. And her sturdiness and her groundedness was this consistent, um it was a consistent guiding light that just kept me grounded throughout a lot of hard things, too. And I think back truly, and I think if I didn't have that initial business coach way back when I was like a very early adult, I didn't even know what I wanted with my life. And yet I had this person feeding me these books, feeding me this positive mindset, asking me when you step out of your bed ever morning, who are you? Who are you? When you wake up every morning, the way that you show up to the people around you, who are you? You know, imagine I think back and I think at 18, if I didn't have her in my life, I'd probably be in a really different place right now. And yet, you know, so I just you cannot undervalue the importance of having people that really back you, that actually have a vested interest in you. And it's like I think um I mean for me I I don't take on that many clients, I'll take on one or two at a time, and through that I've I've learned that the importance of giving undivided attention to people and actual presence is more valuable than anything, just having a person in your life that is present right where you are. And I think that's how you show up in the world as well. You certainly do that across all of these amazing things that you're doing, across your blog articles. You are such a giving person of your time and energy. And um, actually, that was going to be the next question that I had for you. Because because you are so giving of your time and energy, I wonder how you balance that. And I know it may be a struggle because I think in the past we've talked about how how difficult it is to balance these things. But how do you balance that and continue to choose yourself and um take time out for you as well when you're investing so much of your own time in other people and other people's practices? And how do you revalu your own well?

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yeah, I think you know, it's it's a challenge, and I'm not gonna pretend to ace it. I have a you know, a bucket load of different strategies that I try to, you know, put in place and different things work at different times. Um, because I think, yeah, like you're saying, that as coaches or any anyone who works with other people, you know, we do put energy into truly hearing people and being with them at that point in the journey. And so it does take not in a negative way, but it does take energy from you. Um, and so it is important, like you're saying, to fill that, fill that cup and sort of make sure that you're okay so that you can keep on giving, essentially. And that's that's true for anyone here, you know, who are her parents or carers as well. It's exactly the same. Um, yeah, and it's just around, it really is around the self-care piece. And for me, making room for my own art practice. Um, I'm also fun fact, Corinne. I'm also in a little garage band. So I try to prioritize making time for that as well. That really, really fills my cup too.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

So that's amazing. I had no idea. Oh my gosh. And you know what? How healthy is that for you to actually not be doing something that's quote unquote art, but well, it is art, it's art in a different way. But that is so good. Actually, weren't you telling me when you were here that you try and pick a new thing or skill or something to what where would where did the conversation go when you were here in the studio? I remember you mentioning something about testing skills or something.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Oh, bravery, maybe bravery and courage having a courage project. Yes, that's what it was. That's exactly what it was a courage project. So is that your courage project? Oh my gosh, 100%. Because I I've I've actually sung on stage a couple of times in the past, and my memory of those occasions has been extreme embarrassment. So this is a this is definitely a courage project. So we'll see, we'll see how it goes. I'm trying to.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Oh my gosh, well, well, catch out of the bag now.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

We all know it. Yeah, and like even sharing here. I'm like, that's part of my that's part of my project. And art's the same, you know, as in visual art, it's it's the same. So it's really interesting for me to know what I know and have experience, what I have experienced in the realm of visual art, and then try to apply that as well to music. Essentially, that's it's really interesting to attempt to do that. Some of some things are very hard to transfer over. And it's yeah, I'm just loving it. It's just it's intellectually challenging in that sense as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

And it's good to it's good to do something as well. Like I'm a big fan of constantly pushing myself into the unknown. And it's like the moment that I feel like I know or I understand something, I'm like, oh, what more can I learn? Like that there's just there you go, there's the second value growth.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The love of learning as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah, it's an obsession with like learning and just what what else can I get from this? And I think that's exactly what you're doing in that. It's like you're taking any form of expert hat off, and you're just going, well, I'm just gonna throw myself in this unknown. Yeah, and just give it a red hot crap. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, anyway, it's very scary. It's very, very scary, but I'm doing it anyway. And I feel like I do actually feel like it's keeping me, what's the word? Keeping me um connected to new visual artists as well, you know, brand new visual artists, because I'm reconnecting those dots and just yeah, really.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Remembering how it feels to be a beginner again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep. Oh, that's actually that's you know, that's that's a really interesting thing to contemplate on, actually. I might use that as my my contemplation. Actually, I'm gonna write that down.

unknown 42:20

It just drops.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Because I do this is this is what I do. Like, so I I I do these little instead of just meditating all the time, so I do my meditation practice and then I do these um these phases where each week I'll pick like a topic for co contemplation, or it might be a word, or it might, it's just something that kind of floats in that I go, oh, I need to, I need to chew on that for a bit longer. And so what I'll do as part of my meditation practice is I'll just sit and I'll really loosely hold on to whatever that is. So for example, I might make this beginner mindset thing my moment of contemplation. And I just hold it really loosely in my head. And the more you sit and you just let the ideas kind of float in and float out, it's really interesting how much clarity and how many new insights you can get on a certain topic just by allowing yourself to almost be bored with it and just chew on it, but not grab onto it in a really tight way. But just yeah, it's a it's a really interesting activity. I um there's a there's an app. Um actually, what is the app that I use? I I think it's called Twin Flame or no, not twin flame. Hang on. I'm gonna find this because basically what it does is for three minutes every three hours, it gives you this um notification. Where is it? Oh, triple flame. See, I was close. So it gives you a little notification. Every three hours, it basically forces you to pause for three minutes. So I put my brushes down, I go and sit on the lounge, and I'll sit with whatever that concept, topic, word, whatever it is that I've chosen for the week, and I'll just contemplate on it for three minutes. And I will literally leave those little contemplation settings with entire blog articles.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

I love the idea, but man, I could not tolerate the interruption to whatever I was actually doing. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

It does, it takes a lot of self-control. It takes a lot of self-control to do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

I've got on so on my phone, you should see on my phone, I've got so many alarms set already for non-essential. I was gonna say for non-essentials, that's not true. For absolute essentials, like pick up my daughter from here, drive this child to that plate location, do you know, they were absolute essentials, cannot miss the thing. And I've just got so many of those I could not deal with more. I love the concept though.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Yeah, see, I think you and I operate quite differently in our capacity to hold a lot of things at once. Like I'm um like I'm pretty systems operated as well. Like I've got my task lists and do all of that, but in way of actually putting that much on my plate, I just literally don't allow myself to do it. And I know that that is a luxury at times. Some people can't avoid that. Like some people can't avoid that. I get that, and I can definitely acknowledge that. And usually what happens is when those um necessary things have been put aside because my nervous system can't quite cope with them for that day. Inevitably, something will happen later in the week. And I'm like, okay, this is all getting okay. I need to do one day of like very high stress situation to get myself through this, and then I can regulate again.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Well, this morning, this morning, every Wednesday morning, I need to get my children. I've got two girls, I've got to get both of them to different locations at exactly the same time of day. Oh my god. How does this work? No, it's okay. I do have a solution, but you know, yeah, that that's the sort of thing that just that takes a lot of energy from me. And so yeah, I couldn't fathom your your concept. But I love it. I mean, it's you know, good on you for doing it.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

It doesn't happen, it doesn't happen every single day, I will admit, but it does happen. I I do try and schedule it into when I've got the the painting time, and it's always during school hours, so yeah, yeah. Um but thank you so much for letting me drop this um topic into your ear and allowing you to chew on it for a bit.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah, no, that's a pleasure. You should see the piece of paper in front of me. It's got like scribbled notes all over it, five different colours, you know. Um you've inspired me. Yeah, all the colours.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

As long as they're colored. Compulsory, isn't it? Well, do you know what I got? My my wonderful husband, he's he bought me a new Remarkable the other day. So Remarkable is like a paper tablet. It's got no apps or anything, so it's distraction-free. It literally just saves me from buying multiple notebooks a year because I go through probably 10 of those thick moleskin notebooks a year. And so I had the old one and then it kind of stopped working. And so for my birthday this year, he bought me the new one. And so I am using, I always use the bullet, bullet journal strategy. Yeah, I don't know if you use that, but that has saved my life. Um because it means that I can like categorize my thinking and I can have like little things that are like, okay, next blog article, you know. But I highly recommend getting a remarkable, and the new ones actually have colour as well. So the old ones were just black and white, but the new ones, they actually have colour. I think that's why I've never leapt.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

I have heard of these and bright, however, no colour. Like how how does one live without color?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

No, this one has colour. This one has colour, and I have been making use of it. And so what you can do, so when you're when you're working on all your PDFs and things like that, and I don't know about you, but I'm one of those people that highlight the shit out of everything and make notes on everything. I'm not a neat reader, like no one could ever borrow a book of mine because they are just covered in post-it notes and highlighter markers. So um, it's really convenient for when you're like reading through like PDFs or things like that and you're marking things up or sending things back to a client with notes. Oh my god, has saved my life. So highly recommend. And no, they're not paying us for saying this, but it is a really good and is it Can I use that?

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Can I use that for like my own podcast planning and things as well? Like, do you use it for that for like businessy things as well? Not just you know, journaling and research?

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Uh a hundred percent. So I've got all of my yearly reviews, my monthly reviews. I have set up like PDFs with quarterly breakdowns for myself. Like I've got the whole that's the point. It's like for me, I really hate sitting in front of a computer. I've got all the systems I use click up for most things with um my coaching clients and all of that, like for accountability checklists and all of that jazz. Um, so I have that on the computer, but I cannot, for the life of me, carry a laptop around with me. I have to set a day, which is admin day where I sit on the computer.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

But this is kind of not actually on the computer, Corinna.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

No, well, just checking. No, no, no, not on the computer. I'm staring. I'm daring up. In front of the computer. But I seriously I can only give myself one admin day or I go batshit crazy. So the remark is good because when it comes to like the goal setting side of things and actually reviewing my numbers and and stuff like that. Anything that is like a PDF, and even your handwriting, it converts all your handwriting to um to text, and it's amazing. Amazing. Sounds good. I was thinking I'm wondering if it could interpret my handwriting.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yes, but I think it's fairly neat. I reckon it would work.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Oh my handwriting is shocking. My handwriting is shocking. Like I'm sitting here in front of it at the moment. So I've literally got, I use the bullet journal kind of template for most things. But even like, for example, I pulled in um gallery, a gallery contract that I had to sign the other day. I pulled that in and went over it and highlighted because I can't read things on a hate reading things on a screen. Um you know, all my my my goal timelines and yeah, like my my quarterly tops and all of that I've got as PDFs that I just write into as so good. So good? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Alright, I'm gonna investigate. Do it, do it, do it.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

I'm gonna jump back on this sander. I've got these words to sand, but not too far. I'm not sending too far. Don't sand too far. Taking too far today. You can do it.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

I'll message you in an hour with a capital letter stop. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Do it.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Do it. Check it out. Please set your time now.

unknown 51:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

All right, cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Lovely good at that.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

I'll check with you soon. Bye. All right. Bye.