Holly Eva on Sacred Space, Showing Up & Letting the Painting Lead

In this episode, Korynn picks up the phone and calls her longtime artist friend Holly Eva ,and the conversation goes exactly where it needs to go.

The surprise topic for this episode? Studio Sanctuary.

Holly Eva is a Sydney-based contemporary artist known for her joyful, colour-drenched still life and abstract work. After years painting in busy open studio environments, Holly made a pivotal move to a private studio, and everything changed. Her work, her mindset, her most successful exhibition to date.

In this unfiltered conversation Korynn and Holly talk about what it really means to find your sacred creative space, the magic and madness of the artist's life, selling 18 works in 18 minutes at her Jumbled solo show, her heros Idris Murphy and Ken Done, why failure is a superpower, and what happens when you finally get out of your own way and let the painting lead.

This is the kind of conversation that happens between two artists who truly get each other. Honest, warm, funny, and completely real.

New episodes drop whenever the call happens.

LINKS

Holly's Website: https://www.hollyeva.com/

Jumbled Online

Greenhouse Interiors

Art Images Gallery

Loft Mudgee

Join My Inner Circle: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/mailing-list

Visit My Website: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/

Find me on Instagram HERE

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:20

So I'm just sitting here and I've just finished listening to the finished um podcast interview I did with the incredible Holly Eva. And can I just say I have absolute goosebumps all over my body just even re-listening to this interview? Man, old man. She is one of those sunshine people that you just want to be around. Holly Eva is an Australian contemporary artist known for her intuitive, minimalist, still life and figurative paintings. Her work explores colour, emotion, and the beauty of everyday objects with a focus on stillness, imperfection, and connection. Eva has exhibited widely across Australia, including multiple solo and group exhibitions. Her work is held in private collections both nationally and internationally. Recent highlights, which we talk about on this podcast, include a major solo exhibition with Jumbled, ongoing representation with greenhouse interiors, a solo exhibition at Art Images Gallery in Adelaide, and a group show with The Loft in Mudgy. Holly has also been featured in the past on Channel 9's The Block Shop, My Kitchen Rules, and Selling Houses Australia as well as Belle Magazine. But more importantly, she is one of those beautiful people that has come into my life. I think the first time we met was through the art passage when I used to own a gallery many, many years ago. And from the moment I met her, I thought, hmm, we're gonna be friends. And that we have stayed. So we don't see each other often, but every time we bypass each other at an exhibition, we inevitably fall into these long-winded chats. And this is another one of those. So we're gonna dive in now, have a listen, and let me know what you think of this brand new format because man have I been having fun chatting to artists all over Australia. Uh, have a good one, guys, and shoot. Hey guys, welcome to Daring Creatively Uncle, where I call up an artist's friend, throw a surprise topic into the conversation, and hit record. No plan, no prep, no agenda, just two creatives having a chat. I'm Karin Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life. My guests are artists at every stage of the journey. And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear. So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us. This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered. Let's go. Can you hear that on your end when it says that? Ah, I sure can. Oh, okay. Good. Because I'm testing all this new technology at the moment, and it's been one of those things where I've done a test. Um, like I was on the phone to Julie Battisti yesterday because I was checking the connection with the international line, and surprisingly, it actually comes out quite clear. I'm really looking forward to this whole um new format. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

How have you been? You're so clever. Do you like it? You like the idea? Yes, I do. I I think this it's really clever, but even like your the way that you use technology, I think, you know, like not of art not a lot of artists are great in that area, but I think it's fantastic. Yes, I do. I think I thought it was a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Well, I just think like the way that I see it is like you know me. I'm such like a like a social creature most of the time. Social butterfly. Yeah, but so are you. You're a sunshine person too. That's why I love you so much. Um but but every single time I pick up the phone in the studio and just have a chat with someone, I think to myself, God, I gotta let it out at that. It just lights me up and I feel like I'm all sparkly after every phone call. So I thought, I was kicking myself. I can't believe I didn't think of this format earlier. But anyway, this is how this works, right? So I'm gonna throw out a topic. And the reason I've picked this topic for you is because I feel like I've been watching you over like so long now, but ever since you moved your studio, I can like see this like energetic pivot in all of your work. And so today, and I know we're gonna talk about your jumbled solo show because I want to hear all about that, but the topic I've picked for you is studio sanctuary. Okay, okay. So does that ring true for you? Am I observing something? Have I been right in observing that?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Absolutely, yes. Oh my gosh, yes. Yes, 100%. I I I can talk about that topic um obviously because I've experienced it. So yeah, that's a great topic for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah. How did you end up? Because you know, I think you're in my friend Tegan Georgette's old studio.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

A beautiful space. Isn't it cool? The old Peter's Pizza Factory, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 6:01

It is, it is. It's uh it's uh a co-op building, so it's like it was designed originally for the arts, and it's very, very hidden and not open to the public. Yeah, and that's what I that's what I needed because when I was at the Bull Eye Timbermill, it was one big party. It was open studios, it was let's go have a cuppa, let's go have another cuppa, let's go have another cupper. And I was a huge social butterfly there. We were laughing all the time. I was helping out a little bit with management, and I was completely distracted, and I wasn't getting my day's worth. So the the the bigger picture, I wasn't actually looking very serious. I wasn't stepping up to my potential, I was I was having a ball there.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah. And when you like when you I'm curious because I know for me, when every time I've moved my studio or sized up my studio or pivoted the space, there is inevitably like a stage where you move into your new space and it like takes a little moment to like regulate to it. Did you get that in your new space? Because it is so different to the timber mill.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

I had to adjust to the quietism there. Um I think like my old studio had a beautiful window. I don't have a window in this space, but it's still completely worth me being there. Um, I just take breaks and go outside. Um, but yeah, it it's there's a moment where you go, okay, I'm in a new surrounding. I've got no one to talk to. Like no one. And now I've got it. It is. So when I see someone in the corridor passing me, um, I'll be like, oh hi, how are you there? You know, I'm like full of beans and um but it's it's quiet working. That there's film directors there, there's other artists there, not very many. Um, and they all work quietly. So if you're if I'm gonna have a loud conversation, I need to go outside or put headphones on. We all kind of whisper. Like that's that's how quiet that beautiful building is for the seriousness to sort of happen. And it's happening, it's happening for me. So it's it's been it's been a really good move for me and my career.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

And do you feel like as well, like, because I know your space, it's essentially like a square room with this beautiful roller door, isn't it? Yes, yeah. I love the roller door, it's gorgeous, a big old barn door. Yeah, it's gorgeous. And so can you explain like how you because I've never I haven't been into your studio since you've moved there. I only remember it from when my friend was there. How have you set it up in a way that kind of nurtures that quiet? Or have you just moved in, put a whole bunch of canvases on the wall, and there's nothing else but canvases on the wall? Like, do you have a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I've got I've got um, I have a chair. I have a single chair. And it's just got it's gorgeous actually. It's really old and ripped and made of velvet, and it's like really vintage, and it's just got paint all over it, and I love it. It's really comfortable, it's kind of got like the old vintage springs in it. Yeah, it's got two, it's got two kind of armrests, so I'm able to actually put my elbows on like a real professional and look at my work in a real comfortable chair kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

So it's a serious contemplation chair.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yes, I love it. I love it. I can't part I can't part with it. It's it's it's almost like a friend that's been with me this whole time. You know, it it's it's part of me. It's like it's it's it's actually a big part of my studio, I would say that chair. Like it's it's not going anywhere. I've it, you know, and I think when people pass, it'll just be the chair then, you know. It's it's been me in the chair the whole time, which is special. There's something special in that. There's an energy to that. Um, I have a little mini fridge, I have a kettle because I drink a lot of tea. Um, I have all my I have all my paints just set up just on some shelving. And sometimes I can't move in my studio. I've made such a mess that I I it takes me one full day to clean up from me just working.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Um, you know, for months on end and getting papers out and tearing them and, you know, spray paint and you know, just I have to empty my rubbish every now and again. So I'm my actual studio is really messy. I'm really messy. Absolutely. Like it's actually embarrassing if I was to bring somebody into my studio currently because there's stuff everywhere. And then I'll get into okay, this is completely like too chaotic. I'm gonna have to clean it up so I can actually think a little bit clearer. Um and it tends to be when I'm moving into a body, a new body of work, then I'll do a really big yeah, I'll do a really yeah, I'll do a really big cleanup and go, okay, I'm ready for this to happen now. It's a new body of work. And sometimes I can just sit in my clean studio and nothing happens, as you know. Nothing happens, nothing works. You try everything, you feel frustrated. Um but it it, you know, that's I'm just it's embarrassing. Like that. That's why private studios I think are really good, because you actually find out truly what painter you are. And and yeah, you know what I mean? Like I kept my studio because it was open at the timber mill, people were coming through. I used to have to clean up daily. I'd clean up daily just in case people would pop their head in because there was no door.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

So um this is different and as well as that, when you have more of an open studio, because that's what my old one at Crocker's used to be like as well. It was constantly talking to people and whatnot. And I mean, I kept mine reasonably clean while I was there too. But I think the thing is as soon as you're on your own, it's exactly what you say. It's you and your own thoughts, and you actually don't have anyone passing, giving you their opinions, telling you what they like. And it's like you say good. Yeah, so that perfect segue into like how do you think that space has pivoted your art? Because I mean, I've known your art for many, many years, and I've seen it go through so many different iterations. But the one constant with your work that I see is that every body of work I've ever seen come from you has been unapologetically who you are. And I didn't think your work could get any more hollyva than it currently is. But for this last show, I was I was going through the catalogue, and I shit you not, there was not a single piece of work in your catalogue that I didn't love that didn't make me feel all of your sunshine that you just bring to the world. And just for just for reference people, and I will put this into like a little um, what I'm gonna do, I'll do like a little intro at the start of every episode to basically talk about who you are. Um, but Holly to me, when I think of Holly Eva, I literally see a sunshine. So every time you are around Holly, I'm talking to the viewers now. Every time you're around Holly, you cannot help but feel sparkly. So you are one of those sunshine people that just makes everybody feel good around you. And this is why this studio sanctuary and you coming into your own sacred space just for yourself. I genuinely am curious as to how that has affected this current body of work that has, well, it's now is it all sold out now?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I think I have three pieces, but I'm crying right now because that it's funny because I think these things really do, you know, like hearing those words, I'm just really emotional right now.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

No, because I think people need to say these things out loud. Like the way that we walk around in the world, we don't realize often how we are affecting those around us. And when I have watched this, all this new momentum unfold for you, all I have been doing on the back end is just though, yes girl, yes, girl, yes, girl, and celebrating you because I feel like for so long that's who you have been operating in the world as this sparkly rainbow unicorn. And you inspire me. Like I watch you all the time, and I'm so beautiful. I want to be exactly like well, I think we are kind of similar, aren't we? We're both kind of unicorns.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Absolutely, absolutely, and I think there's something completely so special about like um artists supporting artists, and like I've got friends, but it's a different vibe when I go into a room of artists. We all know what we're all going through. And I don't think people on the outside really understand what we do because I I believe that art is a calling. I believe that artists it's not it's not really a choice for us. Because I like it that that's madness going in to, and I've often thought about this to paint five days a week, 40 hours, maybe sometimes more. And the amount of money that we get paid isn't fantastic, but yet we still but we still show up and we pour all of our hearts on the line. We're trying to achieve something in the work to you know universally connect or not connect. It's like it's like it's some form of madness. There's some sort of madness going on, but it's so deep and powerful and special that we can't turn our backs to it. So when you get in a room of artists that understand that, and then we just start talking, there is just such a beautiful connection. It's like, oh, I don't feel so alone now. I feel like so I feel like I'm not the only one that is doing the madness. Like, oh, you get it? Oh, that's great. Let's just I feel so safe now, like, you know, because it it's it's mad. It's out of the ordinary. It's not an ordinary life, it's not an ordinary job, and it's all up to us to pick our hours, to work as hard as we like because we're our own bosses. And but I think like just that little reward on how you were saying that I was the joy, like that, that's just that's no, no amount of money could can make me feel like that. And that's the payoff painting in a way. Like it's it's to reach, it's to reach people, but we're not really painting to reach people, we're we're painting to reach ourselves. And I think yeah, and I think that when a painting does connect with somebody else, it's like we've connected on an on a deeper level, and it's it's it's the magic that exists in this life. It's it's truly magical.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

It is, isn't it? And I think as well, like I'm I'm a firm believer in that when we are creating from this place of authenticity and genuinely in our studios in order to get to know ourselves more with every single work. I feel and I know that people I think people can pick up on that energy. I think that there is an energetic quality to a work that has been so like to me, I get emotional even thinking about this as well. Like, I think, you know, the times that we sit and we just are fully present within our process with no distractions, you know, you actually feel like even though you're there alone doing this thing, you're actually not alone. And I I've spoken to you and many other people before about this concept of where inspiration comes from, right? And I am constantly feeling as if inspiration is a download that kind of moves through me. And it's like the moment that energy drops in and it's moving, it's actually my job to try and catch up with where it is trying to lead me. And I'm like a dog chasing this thing, going, it's 10 steps ahead. And that's this thing, you can't turn your back on it. Like it's this thing that is ahead of us and it's pulling us and it's magnetic. And I think, I mean, you're how many kids do you have?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Two, two teenagers now.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yeah. So your kids are a bit older than my daughter. And so the thing is, it's like you've got that ability now to kind of stay in your vortex as long as you need to.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Oh, yeah. And so I could work 14 hours a day if I wanted to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

You're like me.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yes. Yes. But sometimes, um, sometimes it gets a bit much, and I do have to stop because I find myself completely coming home and talking to my husband about it, and talking to the kids about it, and then doing more research on history, and then watching YouTube videos on, you know, art and the power of art and the the imageries and Matisse and Picard. And like I get the vortex. The vortex. And then I have to pull back and go, okay, let's just get pull it back a little bit and let's just go to the beach for a walk or let's just go and have a coffee and not talk about art. You know, it can it can actually become quite consuming. And I think that um I've just got to be careful of that too. And when I have breaks, the paintings are so much better. Like if I have a week off and then I come back into my studio, I just I'm just like bam, into it. It's just like, wow, what has happened? I've just painted three paintings and they're freaking great. Like, what has just happened?

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I know, and that's but I think that's the other thing that I was getting to about this shift from going from having people around you constantly observing what you're doing versus you in the studio with your own thoughts. Like, it is one of those things where you have to have a little bit of self-control about, okay, like when you get to that messy middle stage or when you get to, you know, you can feel it in the work when the work is getting that stickiness, that resistance to it. And you're like, well, I don't, I don't know how to push it to the next level, but I know it's not done. And I know there's kind of some areas that are pissing me off, but I just don't know what more to do. I don't know how to push it forward. And you have to have so much self-control to just step out and not look at it or to move on to something else and trust that that next thing that you're working on is going to inform the thing that you're stuck on. And so I this is what I think non-creative people don't understand. And I think this is the one thing that, like around our dinner table, when I'm around my family and my husband, and I'm a bit like the black sheep in the family, or uh I might just say the rainbow unicorn of the family. I float around like on a constant hot air balloon, and I feel like everyone's job is to just pull me back down to reality every now and then. Um I try to have these conversations around the dinner table about like what I'm going through with my work. And you could just see the information is just not, it's not landing. And then I go, If they don't get it, I'm like, creative friend to talk to right now.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

No, that's not. Yeah, that's exactly a risk.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Of exactly these conversations. And I think we need to do it more often, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Artists, artists most certainly need artists, but I think you know, that that same rule applies when my husband's a truck driver. You know, truck drivers need truck drivers to talk to, they need someone to go, yeah, mate, you know, like I get this, I get what you're doing. And it's just like the, you know, there's a familiarity there and it's connection. It's easy, it's not difficult. And, you know, um, I have a friend, Tanya Stubbles, and sometimes I'll just go to her and show up and she'll be like, What is it? And I'll be like, I'm struggling, I'm struggling. And then she will just find the words and pull me straight back in and tell me to F off, get back in my car, get back in the studio. Yeah. Because it's it's not it's not easy. It's not easy. It's it's something that we can't not do. And getting back to the the studio, um it it was there was like a sort of seriousness that had to take shape with my me and my work. And um, so when I made the move and when I cut off friends, and when I cut off that, you know, having cups of tea all the time, um, then I just started to really, it was only me and the work, and then I had to go, okay. And I loved it from day one. I was just like, oh wow, is this what I've been missing the whole time? Like this I eight hours and it felt like five minutes, and it was just incredible. And I knew that I was in the right space. That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

And when you so the solo exhibition that you just is it finished now or is it still open?

SPEAKER_00 24:47

It's just finished, yeah. It was just finished, yeah. Yeah, it was they do monthly shows at jumbled, and um how is that experience for you?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

You just looked like, oh my gosh, you do not like, oh my gosh, you fit so well with that.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I think so too. I really do, and I think that's really important for artists to find where they fit. But something happened when I went to Jumbo, like something, something extraordinary. Uh the way that Pip runs that gallery space, the fashion, the business, the business mentality. Uh it's it was something different. It was something like I just knew that I slotted in there like it was a team. It was um, it was there was an energy that sort of suited me a little bit better. Um for now, anyway. I don't I don't like cutting off any, you know, opportunities for myself.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Leave all the doors open. That's the way I've got to leave it.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

You've gotta leave all the doors open.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

And you've got to date people. Like dealing with galleries and this industry, it's like you've got to date everywhere. You gotta develop relationships everywhere you go. And always, always, always do the right thing by people because it's a big world and it's a small world. And very small world, our art world. Very, very small. And you've got to you've that's the one thing that I say to like some of my coaching clients is that no matter what the connections and the relationships you build with people, whether they are curators, gallerists, um, your collectors, um, you know, interior design stores you're working with, architects that purchase your work, whoever it is, one of the biggest priorities is the connections that you keep and the relationships you build. And if you are kind and you do the right thing by people, you will always be ahead. You will always be ahead. That's right. That's exactly right. And piss off, like I look at they're like Jumboed is a perfect um example of um like they have their own unique model. And every time you talk to the girls there, they are alive, they are upbeat, they are excited. Like they make every single person that comes into their like I've met them at affordable art fair and things like that. And there's never a time that you arrive that you can't have a good conversation, that they don't make you feel welcome. And that is obviously one of her values. And it is it is shared outright on every single thing they do in their social media, they do it fantastically.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

I know, and I think like I'm I'm just trying to sort of really put like I feel that like sometimes we can show in places and do well, but then there's there's sort of like the the energy it is a bit flat after, but I felt I felt something different after jumbled. It was almost like they really appreciated my work. They really, they were just like we are really into this work, like we absolutely think that this work is like the aunt's pants, and which like it just made me feel grateful. And I think because artists are so emotional, we want to run with people that like a compliment is probably worth a little bit more than money to us. It's like so true. You know what I mean? Like artists we just we don't chase the money. The money comes, but we just don't really chase it. We're not in the game for that. No, we're in the game, we're in the game for you know, experience and you know, um, getting to the core of things and making the movement happen. Like there's so much more reasons why we paint. And um it's yeah, it's it's hard to it's it would it's really difficult to try and express this to people that aren't creative or that don't paint.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

That's right. And especially like our husbands as well. Like I my husband is like the polar opposite of me, and he's like, you know, like most men, very black and white. And I think that that's the thing about art and business is that it is not black and white, it is all grey, and the way that we have to navigate this industry is just with this pure sense of complete openness. Instead of trying to rigidly fit our practice into a model, it's almost like we have to let our work dictate the direction that we're heading in. And every time like I've allowed that to happen, because like I've gone through the phases of, you know, that part of my little personality that just wants to hustle my way to success. And I love a challenge, and you know, there's something about struggle that I just really love. I love getting through a bit of struggle. And I've gone through that phase of trying to push, push, push to get what I want. And inevitably, I burn out. And when I land at the goal, it doesn't feel as good. Whereas if that's right.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

There's something, there's something like, yeah, I get it. I it's like you're building up, you're building up, it's like, oh my gosh, I'm here. But then it's like you fall flat and you go, wow, I I didn't expect it to feel like that. I thought it was gonna, but when I after this show, I just felt on top of the moon. I just felt like I worked really hard, I did a few things differently. So Pip allows me to put all the work out in the world prior to her launching it. So so people see what they're potentially going to buy. Whereas some galleries make you hold back the work and they'll just open it up on opening night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but I'm not I'm not there yet. Like I don't have all these sitting ducks waiting. You know, I I'm in this transitional space where I'm advertising me, I'm I'm showing people, and they need a bit of time to consider the work, and then they've got their eye on something so that when we when I launch, then they're ready to purchase.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Whereas I think really famous artists, they only have to be with a gallery for the gallery then to say, we are showing this person here. This is opening night, it's first in, best dressed, boom, and then there's a huge big rush. Well, that's not me yet. I'm not I'm not in that category. So Pip was like, show everything, get it out there, help, help us help you. So I then thought about doing a catalog, got permission to do a catalog, put my catalog out prior to my show. Yeah. So then that that created a sense of, okay, people are people are interested in this. And so many people messaged me going, I missed out on that. I had my eye on that and I missed out on that, which is great because then that, yeah, then that creates that urgency for, okay, well, you know, I don't do a lot of commissions, I must say, because um I really struggle with those because my work is that free. I've got so much freedom in the work. I'm gonna currently work on um one commission for a person because I know I can achieve what she's after. Yeah. Um, but it was just such a great experience. I felt I I feel like I really fit there. Um and it was just, yeah, it was a fair, it was a fantastic. It was the most successful show I've had in my 20-year career was with Jumbled. And it was the most money that I've made, it was the most gratitude I've received, and it was just the best feeling that I've ever got after a show as well. So everything aligned with this particular solo of mine for the first time ever. For the first time ever, I feel like wow, all that really hard work, all that time in the studio cut off to the outside world has paid off. And Pip let me run with it. I was like, what do you want to see in this show? She's like, do you? Oh so she's just fantastic. Like, how's that? Like, not telling me she kind of died for you. I'm like, invisibly, invisibly allowing me to shine. Like, what a woman to give that gift to me to go just be you. Uh, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

That was that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

That was that was like, wow, that was like that. Really made me go, wow, she really there's a trust factor in that. Yeah, she she just trusted me. So that made me work in a different, you know, mindset as well, compared to some people saying, I really feel this is your strength. Do that.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

So that's why every piece was kind of really individual in those artworks. And I think that for me and my family, um, that show will go down in history. I'll never forget that show.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Um it was a fiction of who you as a person. Yes, it was what I was watching, like throughout the entire process, the marketing that they did, the marketing that you did. I just felt this overarching theme of like, what a celebration. It was just beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, it was just really, really beautiful because of the hard work that I put in and it paid off. You know, I've had so many failures of working really hard and you know, maybe the studio shift and time of me getting becoming a better painter and me understanding painting a little bit more. And trust me, I have like really bad days most of the time. Nothing works, nothing works most of the time. But um, yeah, for this to to come to fruition and to to just be uh really great was just phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Um and yeah, so I think as well, like because sometimes I think from the outside as well, people look at an artist's life and they just they think it's really poetic and perfect all the time. Oh god, no. And it is just actually the polar opposite. And I think only struggle. Yeah, and only us creatives can understand that. And so I think that's why when a when a show comes off with such success and such good energy about it, yeah, it is a real honest win. Because and I mean, this is the other reason why I want to be putting out vulnerable episodes like this, because it isn't all easy, and some weeks are just completely flat. And when they are flat, it affects everything. Like when you have a bad studio week, I don't know about you, but for me, it is so hard for me to feel like my entire world is not falling apart just because I can't get a single thing right in a painting. Like it is so energetically draining at times, yeah, and nobody understands, nobody understands why you're so exhausted because from their perspective, you just get to paint pretty pictures all day, right? Yeah, and it's like it is so not like that. So when you do get a really big win and a really successful show, yeah, man, many deserve to feel good right now.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

You really yes, yes, and you know, it it was just rewarding. It was rewarding, and to make my children proud as well. And my husband, it was just my husband and I watching the launch because they launch online at 7 p.m. And it was just my kids were out, but um, it was just my husband and I'm having fish and chips, I think. Yeah, and we were just and the dog, and the dog was there, and we're just watching, and I was really silent, and nothing was selling right on seven o'clock, and I was like, oh shit, oh no, oh no, you know, and it sold this way. Oh, what's gonna but then within I'll never forget this, within I looked at the time and it was like 7.18 and 18 outlets had sold. And that had never happened. Yeah, that had never never happened to me in my life. And I was like, 20 years, wow, yes. Oh, that is unbelievable. Yeah, it was great. It was great, and it was it made me silent. Like I wasn't actually cheering, I was more so crying. It was it I just went really silent and like, oh, that's really lovely that people love the work. Like they're finally getting to, you know, really get an insight to what I'm actually doing and they're responding to it, you know, which is great. Like after all this time, that's why it's great, you know. It it's like it's just been a long time for me. Um I sort of really uh hit a mark in 2016 with my Warrior Women, like they were a real fit. And then 10 years later, it's taken me 10 years to sort of move on from that subject to do still life and landscapes, but mostly still life and abstract, um, to to hit it again. Like it's like this cycle. It's it's it's you know, like I haven't been a hit for a long time, and now it's like, oh, this is great. I'm a hit again. This feels I remember this when with my warrior women. Um, you know, which which might mean I might go quiet for another 10 years, but I don't know. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 38:42

But I don't think of it as quiet. I think of it as like our cyclical sort of nature of creating and how long it actually takes to build up, you know, like for me, I still go back to this download of inspiration. Like, you know, when you're just flugging along doing what you're doing, right? And you get into a pattern of getting good at what you do and just moving through the motions, and yeah, you create some work that you're really happy about. But every now and then, this one little spark, this download of inspiration will happen, and you grab onto it and you just run with it and you don't know where it's leading you. But then when the work finishes, you're like, oh, I have never felt so much like I know this work. It's like it was, it's like you created a version of it in the future that has just come back and landed for you. And it feels so much like you, and so much about every single thing you are thinking about. And those little sparks of inspiration, they don't happen all the time. And I think that's another myth that creatives have to navigate because there's a lot of time where you feel like you're just throwing paint at the walls and seeing what sticks and watching what the market is wanting, and inevitably you can get caught up in a cycle of just redoing what you've always done. And so I think something about when you move your studio, so you give it, you pivot your space, you pivot your perspectives, you get a new opportunity that comes in, which I believe is like the universal nod to go, you're right on track. Like I have a quote on my wall right near my light switch that basically just says, universe, show me how good this can get. And so instead of instead of looking at, okay, my next thing is gonna be this. This is what I'm aiming towards. And then pivoting all your focus into this like box that you've got to work by.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

It doesn't work, it doesn't work like that. It's almost like going, I'm gonna go on a holiday and we're gonna have the best time, and we're gonna go here, here, and here. And nothing's gonna go wrong. Yeah, everything's gonna fall into place, and then you get there and it's raining and it's not sunny or whatever. It's exactly like painting. It's exactly like painting. You can't plan it. You go there and you you just open to, you know. I always get really confused sometimes. I know that obviously, to the logical person, that I'm the one painting the painting, but something happens. Something definitely happens when we when we paint. And um it's like, yes, I'm painting, but the painting starts to show me. The painting has a couple of the answers. Uh I'm looking back at a painting and I'm like, well, okay, it's showing me to go over here now. Like in some it it's crazy because you think, is that me or is it the painting? I know I know that I've made the marks, and this sounds crazy to any normal person. Yes, I know. But the painting is the the painting is the the there's something else going on, and I can't describe it. I can't describe it. I can't, I can't explain it. I can't explain what happens, but it's I I like to use the word magic or or God or whatever, universe, whatever, whatever that thing is, whatever that magic is, it definitely happens when you let go and you surrender. It there's a guidance there. Oh sure, it's it, you know, it it it's um that's what keep keeps us going, I think. Yeah, it's something, yeah, it it's unexplainable. I know I have to show up in my studio. I'm the only person that's witnessing this. Like I'm the only person. I've painted live and I've explained it sometimes, and people are just wowed. They're like, what? How can you see that? I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it's just a gift. Maybe I'm supposed to be here doing this for a bigger purpose. You know, uh, if we just change one person's life, that's enough. And I know that I've changed it, changed a person's life with my art. I know that, you know, like so many like painting helps. Painting helps people get through. Painting creates this beautiful um picture on a wall that they can look at and and escape and feel something and and get lost, get lost in it. It's so important to me. Art. Art's the first thing I look at in the room, in a space. Yeah. Um hundred percent. And it's not and it's not important to some people, and I understand that as well. I understand that. I completely understand that, but it but to me, it's it's everything.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

And I everything.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

I believe that art is the new form of currency, like not in a logical sense, but when I try to like you look at You look at all of the horrible things going on in the world, right? And I think to myself, like, if I was to dumb this down simply, right, could you imagine if every single person in the world was forced to pause every day and do something creatively or to look at a piece of art? Like just put all the war, all the horrible things going on. If every single person, whether they were one of those horrible people doing those horrible things, if everyone got forced to consume art on a daily basis, I am convinced we would not have wars, we would not have issues, people would be more compassionate, people and so the thing is like it's my answer to everything. And it's like I have a lot of logical conversations with people around me who are not creative, who, you know, are constantly going down this political rabbit hole talking about all the horrible things in the world. And I just like I unsubscribe from it all. I can be compassionate about it, but I literally get up and leave. And I just think like the best thing we can all do, whether we are selling our work, not selling our work, whether we are new to the industry or have been in the industry forever, the best thing we can all do is keep making art because it gives permission, like if your works light one person up to inspire them to pick up a brush or hang a beautiful piece in their house for them to look at at night before they go to bed. So when they turn the TV off, turn the radio off, stop scrolling on their phone, they simply look up and feel that one little bit of joy. We have done our job. We have done our job.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And that and it's um that's why it's such a beautiful thing to be to have that calling to become an artist. Like it's not something that I've taken lightly in my life. I never thought that I was really going to be an artist when I was younger. I always thought that I would do something with sport because that was what I was good at at school. I was not good at English, maths, or science, geography. I was just good at sport. And then I got in the art room and I loved it. It was really calming for me. But then teachers told me, you know, you you don't have it for art. You've got to go down that sport path. So they really just threw that complete concept out of the window. And if I could go back now, of course I would just follow my dream and do art. But it I it's look, it called me back, it swung back.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

When did that happen? How did you start picking up the brush again? Like, how old were you when you when you just had that little nudge to go, I'm just gonna give this a go again? Like, how did that occur?

SPEAKER_00 47:02

It was it was a huge calling. So I'd always loved it. I'd always gone into galleries. And then when I was in year 10 choosing electives, they I just remember the teacher sitting with my mum just going, she needs to do something with sports. She's really good at dancing, she's really good at, you know, sports. Like we're we're really trying to get Holly to either do um PE teaching at schools or you know, sports science. Or and I'm like, sports science, are you kidding me? Like, thanks. And um, so I left school and I traveled a bit and I was really lost. I was so lost. I was so, so lost. Anyway, I was a dancer, so I came back and my career started leaning into dance. So then I opened up a dance school in the local town that I was living in. I was living in Appen and I'd met my husband Matt. We opened up, he helped me because he was just such a tradie. He was like, I can build your timber floors, I can put these mirrors up. I'll support you, I'll support you. You're amazing. So there was no dance school in Appen, so I had 50 sign-ups on day one. So I sort of started, I started to build my career about, you know, being involved in the dance industry and I was teaching fitness classes as well. And then I think by the age of 28, I'd had my first child, and then so I had Demi. And then I sold the school, I think three years after, because I'd had two children then, and I just wasn't really feeling it. So I sold the business, and then I was like, well, now what? What am I gonna do? So I was at home, and that's when I started painting. So it was almost like I had um 10 years off of just traveling and you know, working jobs and just dancing, and then so I would have been 30 when I picked up that brush again and did all that. I did prior to when I was dancing, I did do a three-year part-time TAFE course in art, an art degree. It was an art diploma. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they did everything, they did photography, pottery. So I sort of was dabbling, but I was just walking around going, yeah, I'm not that good. Yeah, I don't, I'm not, I was told I wasn't that good, I mustn't be that good. And, you know, that whole self-belief thing that you carry around with you. Um, they've told me that, so I mustn't be that. Um, but no, and then I started doing this figurative work and I loved the female form. And then I led me to my warriors, and then I just it just went off. It just took off. And then I was teaching it, I was teaching workshops and breaking women's hearts, I guess, because the work was very um spiritual and healing, and we were getting in there, and I was like, you can paint too. And we were painting these really big portraits, self-portraits, and I was teaching them intuitive work and how you just look at the painting and how it guides you, and that was really successful. That was really successful, but then I started going, I started feeling the pull that I was a little bit more than what I had just sort of discovered for myself, and I wanted to get better. I wanted to get better at painting, I wanted to see like how far I could really push myself in this area, and then I met Idris Murphy and he changed my whole perspective. I had, I was like, He's amazing, isn't it? I gotta go back to the drawing board. What the hell is this? And his best friend Ross Laurie would just make I the tears would just fall out of my eyes when he would speak about art. I was I was just I was gobsnaked about how that man speaks about art. And then I was like, wow. And so they kind of started lifting me into this other area because I was inspired by them. Yeah, I was so inspired, and I thought I don't, you know, I just I wanted to nail it, I wanted to get better at this abstract kind of work, and it's sort of it has led me into still lives. I find abstraction really hard, but I would really like to dive more into abstraction. Um, but I, you know, compositionally the flowers are kind of working for me.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

But I don't see that's kind of how your brain is almost thinking about them. Like when you've got all your your background beautiful textures, and then you blocking around things to form an object. You're you're flattening space just in a different way. And I I resonate so much with what you're saying about Ross Laurie and Idris Murphy. I feel exactly the same way, and I seriously I go to bed every night with an Idris Burphy catalogue on my bedside table. It's the last thing that I look at every night when I go to the house.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

He's the man, he is just the man, like he's the painting. You know, he's he's just incredible. He's a he's a he's a phenomenal philosopher. His wife is just beautiful, and she always makes me feel really welcomed. He knows my name now, which I love. Um, but I just, you know, everybody has to have a hero, right? That's it. Everyone has I also my other hero is Ken Doan, and you can see that in my work. I, you know, like I I love some of Ken's paintings. They just I think what happens is if you can go still, like when you look at a painting, if you can't speak, then that the artist has done their job. Like sometimes I stand in front of Ken's work and I go, I can't speak. So huge, huge big paintings and all the all these marks, like he's incredible. And what he's done for Australia and the man that he is and the the work, like the Dunas, the the the herit the the history. He's his legacy of more.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

He's not a lot like wow, it's insane, right? But isn't interesting, like those moments. Like, I remember this moment as this tiny little kid. Like, I don't I don't remember the name of the artwork, it's a side twombly painting. It's the one that used to be hanging at the art gallery in New South Wales with the ships. Um it's got a really long name and I can't for the life of me remember. I see. Yeah, I remember being this tiny little kid and going to the art gallery with my my grandma and grandfather. They were really good at taking us to like the powerhouse and all of that. And I just I remember so specifically this moment seeing this painting for the first time. And I remember getting emotional as this tiny little girl. Like it makes me emotional now because I literally remember it. Like, yeah, remember, I remember thinking, what is that? What's what is happening to me right now? Why am I feeling these emotions? And I remember my grandma actually saying to me, Are you all right, Corinne? And I kind of pushed it away and I went, Yeah, yeah, I'm okay. And every time, every time I came back to the New South Wales Art Gallery and I stood in front of that painting, that same thing happened. And I thought that that is what I aim for every single time I paint a painting. Yeah, it is that feeling. Like if I get to the point of feeling like I'm brought to tears by my own work, I know that I've done something right and I don't know what it is, but I know it moves me. And that to me is a tick. If I feel nothing, it ain't quite there yet. And so it's like, isn't it interesting how those heroes, those people that become this like guiding force, they they embed something in us that we're forced to just constantly listen to. And I love hearing those inspirations for you. I had no idea that you were really inspired by um Idris and Ross Loregan.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Idris, I've been out in the desert with Idris. I've done many workshops with him. And the last workshop, I think you have to do a few workshops with Idris to actually understand what he's doing. Because he doesn't show you anything. He shows you nothing about painting. Nothing. Yeah. He might do he might do a bit of colour mixing and that's it. Because we're on our own. He's he says to me, on your own. And it's so true. I've got to find it for me. I've got to find this thing for me. I can't just be like, oh, okay, show me some techniques and I'll I'll be doing that and putting my work out there. It doesn't look like that. He's had to work his ass off too. And he was like Matisse growing up. So Matisse is my favorite, you know, artist as well. And Milton Avery. So we're sort of on the same, I'm liking what he's liking. And it was sort of just like, okay, well, he would be a good mentor for me. And yeah, he's phenomenal. And and so the last visit, I think it was that Berrier workshop that I did, and he was telling me about lines. And when we were looking at my work, he gave me a really gold nugget, and he said, if you look at the world around you, there's not a lot of straight lines. And that's all he said. And I'm looking at my painting, I've got these straight lines, and I'm like, oh my gosh, is that all I need to do after all this time? So these tears were going down my face. And he's like, It's okay, Holly. It's okay. It's like, and I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like, this has changed the work dramatically. So I just started doing these wonky lines. Not they weren't straight. And there was so much more emotion in a wonky line than what there was in my straight lines, because he's looking at the landscape constantly. I don't think he could see one straight line in the landscape. So true. You know, and and even if you set a table up with the tablecloth on it and you put flowers on, there's not really a straight line going on. There, there's there's emotion, there's movement in the tablecloth. Yes. So when I took those straight lines out of my work, it was like, oh gosh, there was there was movement. There was movement going on. It wasn't so static. It wasn't so straight. There was something happening. So that was a huge shift thanks to him, thanks to him after years and years and years. And I said to him, You could have just told me that from the start.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

But I think that's of a really good teacher is that the best teachers do not teach you how to do things, they teach you how to get to know yourself. And it's like he has just such a sophisticated and wisdom in his work that you know could only be developed over all of these years. And it's like exactly right. I was looking at like Elizabeth Cummings' work the other day. I was in King Street Gallery looking at her beautiful gouache paintings, and I was like brought to tears by some of her gouache paintings.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

She's incredible.

unknown 58:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Purely because you can see like in a single mark, single mark, it holds a lifetime of wisdom. And I every time I walk out of one of her shows, I just think, I'm in a hurry, you know, you're in a hurry to get to that level of wisdom about your work. And yet you can't rush that. You just have to path and stay, stay connected with your work consistently over so much time. And this is where creativity is a lifetime pursuit. It is a daily ritual of showing up and getting to know yourself. And it is why it is scary. It's why when I sit down with teenagers, like I do a bit of um uh high potential gifted education teaching within the public sector. And the hardest thing to do with kids that are around that 13, 14, 15, 16 age category, they are really scared of looking inside themselves. They're really scared of sitting still. They're really scared of um anything that is not instant gratification. So when you force them to sit in the unknown, it's it's destabilizing for them. And it takes a lot to get them to surrender to it. And what I did with them the other day, I um, so we're working on this new project, right? And I could just I could feel energetically with all of them that they were just not fully letting go. And so I went, everyone, put your things down, put your shit down. I'm gonna tell you a story. And I told them like a somewhat, you know, a somewhat very, very vulnerable story about myself. And it was probably a little bit too vulnerable to share with high school kids. Like I I thought about it at the end, like I'm talking, and as I'm letting the words fall out of my mouth, I'm thinking to myself, this is probably way too much. But I finished, I finished the phone call and the purpose, like the phone call, finished the conversation with them. And the purpose as to why I told them was that art is not a thing you do. It is not a product, it is who you are. And if you want to start something, if you want to grab a project by the balls and really sink your teeth into it, you have to pick something that you feel passionately about. You have to, you have to be willing to sit with this thing and let it brew. And so I basically was telling them about all the hard things that had happened in my life and how they had been the turning point for every good artwork that I'd made. And the moment I finished telling the story, I could see that there was something that went off in these kids. They just got it. And then I started having these conversations with them, these really honest conversations about how they feel internally, how they have this perfectionist part that just always feels like they have to get something right. And all they want to do is explode. And it was telling stories and getting vulnerable that gave them permission to get to know themselves. And this is why I think when we have real conversations like this, like they are more valuable than anything else. And it's like I look at my daughter Harlan, and I just I look at her beautiful wild spirit, and it's like everything in me is just making sure that this spirit in her stays alive. Like I don't ever want her to feel like she is being molded into someone else's form, you know? It's so it makes me emotional to think about. I mean, you've got teenage kids now, but it's like something that I think about all day, every day, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

And I think as a parent, all you can do is lead and show. Like, you know, by giving up or whatever, that's not really leading. So I think by by you being you and staying in your artistic journey and dyeing your hair pink, being authentically you, your daughter's just being like, go mum, you know. And that that's all we can do because I know with my kids their lives have just taken, you know, taken turns in their own that, you know, and it's it's hard. It's one of the hardest things being a parent. So so difficult. So difficult.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

And I think there's this quote that I have on my wall that I look at all the time that says, the greatest burden a child can bear is the unlived life of a parent. And still, it gives me goosebumps every time I look at it. So true. So I think to myself, wow, money's really tight at the moment. Should I be going and doing something? Oh, like I never ever think about not doing art. But I'm like, should I go and get like a real job just on the side? And then I crack off laughing because I'm like, nope, I'm totally unemployable now. I just need to stick this path and pivot and keep pivoting and keep like that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

That's exactly right. And I've thought about giving up so many times. So many times. I've thought of this anymore. I can't, I cannot physically do this anymore. Then, you know, that's a constant. That's a constant, but then something shifts, and then you go, oh, and then you'll sell a painting, and then that will get you through to the next month. And then you go, now I've got enough money to to pay my rent and buy food, and you know, but I think it starts to shift. I think the finance starts to shift. Firstly, self-belief. Yes, yes, 100%. Secondly, I think that there's a you know, getting rid of a few money blocks that are holding you back. And then thirdly, keeping up the routine of believing and man and manifesting. I think when that sort of starts to stop, like I I felt I knew that being with Jumble, it was a successful show and finance was gonna come in. I just knew it. I just there's just incredible to be with. And then the work was there and I'd you know done this catalogue and was what I was explaining before. But now it's sort of like, okay, great. What's next for me? Where do I go from here? How do I just think?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

What do you think of?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

Well, I I've uh there's a group show happening for me in August with Hazelhurst. Um, so that's like the next thing. So I've started working on that now for August. Um, so I'm hoping to invite collectors and hoping that that's going to be a really beautiful success. And from what I've learned from Jumbled, I'm going to get a catalogue together and I'm going to start advertising and marketing it on my socials and emailing clients and just putting It out there. Yeah. Um, and I'm kind of pushing myself. I don't know about you, and this is going obviously off topic, but that's what these conversations are. Yes. But when you've kind of gone through something and you're looking for something new, I was considering doing a few artworks purely just in black and white because I really want to push and challenge myself. I'm a colorist, but I really want to just challenge myself into that area because I really feel like black and white is extremely powerful. And I just want to I want to see what I've got there. I want to, I want to explore. It's like being an explorer and you just want to go over to the other side of the island to see what's over there. And I think painters do this, and sometimes collectors don't like it. They want, they want me to stay in my own lane with specific, you know, paintings and styles. But if I'm gonna get better and if I'm gonna become a better artist, I can't just keep doing what I'm doing. I have to go and explore the island. I have to see it. I have to go and explore the island. So I'm excited. It's kind of bringing like a certain amount of excitement to see what's there. Um, so that's happening in August. And in between that, I'm working with greenhouse interiors, I'm working with the loft in Mudgy, and I've also got my work down in Art Images Gallery in Adelaide. So fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

So you're this is the thing. You've got you've got plenty of different baskets to put your work in and test things out. And I think when you're prolific like you and you produce a lot of work, I mean, this is the playful nature of um of a creative existence, right? It's just following where the curiosity leads you. And I think inevitably, if we stay the path of that and keep going, oh, I wonder what if, what if, what if? Like I there, I think that the universe moves with you when you're operating with that kind of energy and that kind of momentum and that kind of um joy and fun and curiosity. I don't think you can lose when you no, I it's all about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Exactly. And just staying in alignment with who you are, what you want to do. And when you have bad days, like I've got this routine now when I have a bad day. When I have a bad bathing day, I'll like I have a bath. I have a bath a lot, I bathe a lot, like I just fill the bath up with bubbles, yeah, and I just soak in it and I listen to music. Um I love it. Yeah, so that's that's what that's what I do when I've had just a really bad day. I'll just listen to music, I'll get in the bath and I'm like, bit of self-talk, come on. And and also just feeling the sadness of you know, potentially things not working out the way that you wanted them to work, and just being in that sadness, just feel it. You gotta feel it all. You gotta feel it all. It's not gonna stay the same. The sadness won't stay. It'll go, it'll leave your body and you'll come up bigger and brighter than ever. Yeah. You know, there's a good point. Yeah. I mean, I used to get really depressed about art, but now I'm I've completely learned to manage those emotions of sadness and of failure 100%. I kind of almost embrace failure a little bit because from all the failing and from things not working out, it just propels me in this other direction. It's fantastic, actually. It's actually a really good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

It's a simple thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Yeah, and it it it's a it's a necessity. You have to, you have to go through failure. You have to. If ever if everything was just working out all the time, how bloody boring. There'd be no fight, there'd be no comeback, there'd be no inspiration. There'd be no, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

Yeah, couldn't believe, couldn't, couldn't agree with you more. And it's interesting, like I was having a conversation with um, like Sophie from Curatorial, and I don't know, I was I was having a banter. We were talking about all the stuff there and their amazing personalities, and I don't know how we got onto the topic. She's like, couldn't you be scared of anything? And I actually had to stop and think. And I thought, well, I feel like I'm I'm actually not because I'm not scared of failing at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

In the art world?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

In the art world, or in like just generally, like, I'm not scared of failing at things.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

I'm not scared in the art world. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

I don't think that I I thrive, and I think this is the thing about all us creators, we thrive off the unknown. We get really good at sitting in it. And when you get really good at not knowing and not trying to logic your way through things and not trying to make and force things to happen, when you get really good at resting in the unknown, I think that that is honestly like a superhero cape. Like it's a superhero cape that you put on, and nothing can touch you if you're not scared of the unknown. And so it's the same thing that comes into when you're considering, you know, decisions about galleries, decisions about your work, decisions about your show, you know, whether it's the right thing to say or the not right thing to say.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

I mean, that's not really it's just it's it's like it's like a feeling. I think like with all galleries that you've been with, or if you're applying and you get rejected, you just got to take notice of the feeling and and where like I believe that all the rejections that I've had have been life just looking after me, going, Well, how tough are you? Are you gonna get up or are you gonna crumble? There's that. And I think you know, doors have got to close for other doors to open. And you you eventually, if you hang in there long enough, if you, you know, keep moving through the pain, and then you you eventually like it's taken it sometimes. It happens with artists coming straight out of art school. Boom, they explode. They're amazing, they've got it. It's taken me 20 years. It's taken me 20 years to get to where I'm at. And I've still got so far to go. So, so far to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

But this has truly been we've never officially made it. We're all one step up. The goalpost keeps moving and the excitement keeps building, and every time there's a down, there's inevitably it comes back up again. So it's just like one big roller coaster, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

Yeah, that's right. And you talk to Elizabeth Cummings or I just murphy, and they will say all they are interested in is the next painting. So they're not done. They're not, they're not at the end. That you you never we're never really gonna get that. So if that's true, if we're never really going to get to this place that I was talking about how I felt after being with a gallery, and I just didn't really, you know, and and what what Jumbold has done is they've just raised me right up and pushed me forward. That's what they've done. So there's not really an ending to that either. It's like, okay, so there's no real ending. So why not just really kind of enjoy that journey? Just enjoy it, be the best painter that you can be, and just keep moving forward. I know that I'm gonna fail. Failings are uh I know that I am, and that I'm okay with that. It's it's it's all okay. But I think um having this studio space and painting in silence daily has definitely changed my art. I'm only dealing with me in my brain, I'm only dealing with me in my mind and my heart and the things that are coming out. And I just want to say before we finish up that I was really looking at Ethan Hawke. I love Ethan Hawke, I'm a fan of his philosophy, and he was saying that when painters put paintings out there, they're coming from the person, obviously. So you're really buying the artist's energy. And when a writer or a poet puts a piece of writing or or poetry out into the world, you're actually investing not necessarily in the words, but the energy of that person. Oh, I love that. I'm seeing I love Ethan Hawke, he's just amazing. He I really respond to what he talks about. And I just feel that with me, that has changed the way that I paint. When I look at my work, there is definitely an energy behind it, and that's what is reaching people, not necessarily the actual painting. It's it's the energy behind behind me that's reaching people, and like the job is done. Like, how beautiful. How good is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

And what a what a fantastic way of wrapping up this recording as well. I have had I always knew it was going to be such a joy to tap back into your life again. Every time we cross paths and see each other, well, I have that effect on some people, hopefully, for hopefully in the best possible way. But this is absolutely thank you for helping me celebrate this new um structure of the podcast. I think like you can see this is exactly what I want to happen. Like we just move through like a river, all these different concepts. And do you know what? There are gonna be little gems that people pick up through every single conversation and some of the recordings that I've already done. Like, it's just amazing to me how different each and every one of us are. And yet the consistency and this current that we all have is this, like what you said right at the start, it's a pull. We can't ignore it. We just have to produce, we have to bear our soul to the world, whether we like it or not. And yeah, you don't really have a choice, no, Karine.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

You really don't, like, because we wouldn't choose this, we wouldn't choose this, but it's chosen us for a reason. And I think to honour that is just absolutely just magic. And to have the support of your family and for the for my family and my husband to support me for all these years and just to look at me and go, keep going. Yeah, that's a gift in itself. That is a total gift in itself, and I'm uh for I'll forever be grateful to him and all of his support. Yeah, and but you know, like I am a creative and I've lived a comfortable life because of my husband, but I I I also think that there's a part of me that would really live an uncomfortable life as well, even if I wasn't married. It would be uncomfortable. I would be living in poverty, but I would still paint because there is no nothing else for me. It is it's bigger than me. Yeah, it's not something that I'm just going and choosing. It's chosen me for a reason, and I'm gonna honour that, and I'm gonna honour that in the collectors that buy my work as well. Like it's there's a bigger picture going on. It's always a bigger picture going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:26

100% right. And I think this is just a perfect example of what we need to continue doing as creatives in celebrating each other's wins as well. I think um this industry can um be, you know, it can be quite polarizing in many ways if we don't keep showing up authentically. And that's what I want to celebrate in you today is your authenticity. And um is there anything you want to finally leave people with before we um hang up?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:01

Oh, I would just probably firstly I want to say thank you for your love and your kindness and your beautiful work as well in the world. I love it. That huge piece has been my absolute favorite of yours. Oh, thank you. Um absolutely, and you're a wild cat and you're a wild card, and I love that about you. We can be in a quiet room and you just come in and hoy! I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

Everyone looks, everyone looks be an introvert around me. I I pull I pull the extrovert out of every single person.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:36

Yes, and then but when we go into our studios, we're introverts. Like there's two things going on. We're so wild and crazy, and then we can be quiet for eight hours. What is that? Anyway, I guess just leaving people, whether you're an artist or not, or um, I just think that trust is a huge thing. Trust yourself, follow your gut, follow your heart, and you you won't go wrong in life. You just won't go wrong in life. Trust yourself, back yourself 100%, and yeah, follow your heart. That would probably be my advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:14

Well, thank you so much for jumping on. What I'll do, um, I'll hang up and I'll swing you an email. You just to give me like your updated bio and send me a headshot and stuff like that. Um but this has been so much fun. I can't wait to see you again. We need to organize like a coffee when you attend. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:36

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:38

I'll chat with you soon, and I'll definitely add all of the the links for jumble. Just send me whatever you want me to put in the show notes and um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:47

I'll talk with you soon. Thank you. Thank you so much. Love y'all. Love ya, bye.